ISCA: Philosophy

The ISCABBS forum: Philosophy

(Faunus30577) - OK, being more precise: - June 20, 2008

OK, being more precise: Socrates goes like this... a musician wants to exceed a non-musician, but not other musicians, at music a physician wants to exceed a non-physician, but not other physicians, at medicine. Then he says: in general, wouldn&39;t any knowing person want to outdo ignorant people, but not other knowing people And the only time he says the thing that sends me into confusion is in a tiny coda to that: and wouldn&39;t the unknowing man try to overreach both the...
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(Faunus30576) - I read a different translation and concluded I'd misread somewhat... I'll - June 20, 2008

I read a different translation and concluded I&39;d misread somewhat... I&39;ll doublecheck and report back here.
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(Giraffe30575) - That was the whole Socratic refrain: he was the wetnurse of knowledge. You - June 20, 2008

That was the whole Socratic refrain: he was the wetnurse of knowledge. You already know everything, but just need to be reminded through logical discourse.
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(Vanity30574) - Couldn't Plato have imagined that people were born with the ability to be - June 20, 2008

Couldn&39;t Plato have imagined that people were born with the ability to be a physician, or a musician, and that the training involved was simply the uncovering of a native talent
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(Wicked Wizard30573) - nods - June 18, 2008

nods Many scholars have suggested that the Republic should not be read as a manual for statehood.
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(Peccavimus30572) - I had a prof who suggested that perhaps the Republic was a huge joke -- - June 18, 2008

I had a prof who suggested that perhaps the Republic was a huge joke -- Socrates got a group of Atheneans to agree that the ideal state was . . . Sparta.
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(Faunus30571) - You know, I'm not sure that's implied. Nobody is born knowing how to - June 18, 2008

You know, I&39;m not sure that&39;s implied. Nobody is born knowing how to be a physician, or how to tune a lyre, and I find it hard to believe Plato thought they were. I&39;m not yet convinced that any of the explanations given here gets at what Plato means... I&39;m just trying to be minimally charitable and assume he&39;s not talking complete bosh. I happened across a copy of the Republic in a used book store and started reading semi-randomly and read the second book, where Socrates&39;s..
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(Vanity30570) - The weird thing seems to be the idea that "skill" is an essential rather - June 18, 2008

The weird thing seems to be the idea that "skill" is an essential rather than an acquired trait. I.e., some folks are skilled, some aren&39;t, and those that aren&39;t can&39;t become skilled, and if they try to, they&39;re just being uppity. Of course, that&39;s from the guy whose idea of the perfect state was a fascist oligarchy run by a self-perpetuating elite caste. The idea that social roles (including skills and talents) are inborn and inflexible would fit very well into.
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(Faunus30569) - OK, I get the "unskilled people might want to be better than skilled - June 17, 2008

OK, I get the "unskilled people might want to be better than skilled people because they&39;re naive or full of hubris" thing. It seems unlikely to me that is what Socrates is talking about, because I expected something which ends an argument with Thrasymachus definitively to be a bit more logically cogent. But it sounds like nobody has any better ideas than I do about what else he might possibly be talking about than that.
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(Lammam P Yrruf30568) - I can see it. Step back and think of a child learning to hit a baseball. I'm - June 17, 2008

I can see it. Step back and think of a child learning to hit a baseball. I&39;m gonna out-hit Sammy Sosa! Or a young Will Smith sparring and saying "I can beat Mike Tyson". We look at the excellence we have observed, and set our goals to outshine that excellence. Of course, as we gain skill and experince we (usually) also gain a sense of realism as to what the activity actually entails, and over time develop a realism with regard to our own potential.
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