ISCA: PhilosophyThe ISCABBS forum: Philosophy(Faunus30567) - I don't think there's a cultural assumption that virtue is a skill; that- June 17, 2008 I don&39;t think there&39;s a cultural assumption that virtue is a skill; that justiceinjustice is analogous to these skills is someting Socrates is trying to establish. I can see how he establishes it once the premises are granted; I&39;ve just been confused about the premises. Differing assumptions about the nature of skill are one possible explanation for why I&39;m not getting it (besides just being thick of course). I guess I&39;m not seeing why an unskilled person would, just from...http://rss.iscabbs.com/getpost.cgi?forum=26&post=30567 (Wicked Wizard30566) - Faunus>- June 17, 2008 Faunus> Well, I think the idea is that the person who is ignorant of a skill has no criteria for determining what constitutes progress or better or worse w.r.t. performance of that skill. So, he naively (or, perhaps better "wrongly") wants to do better than everyone. A person who is skilled in a particular craft realizes that you get to a point where you either do the skill or you don&39;t. You are a doctor or you&39;re not. Now, of course, you may learn additional skills as a.http://rss.iscabbs.com/getpost.cgi?forum=26&post=30566 (Gwynn30565) - Hmmm. Maybe that it's, you know your place, with a skill. You have it, you- June 16, 2008 Hmmm. Maybe that it&39;s, you know your place, with a skill. You have it, you know it, done. But the unskilled just realize they&39;re unskilled and want to be better than everybody else, I&39;ll show those damned intellectuals, thinking they&39;re better than me! You see that even today. So I wonder if that&39;s the cultural assumption, something like, the unskilledunjust are envious, whether secretly or not, and consequently resent the people of skill and wish to surpass them While...http://rss.iscabbs.com/getpost.cgi?forum=26&post=30565 (Faunus30564) - I'm imagining it's some kind of cultural assumption I'm missing out on...- June 16, 2008 I&39;m imagining it&39;s some kind of cultural assumption I&39;m missing out on...http://rss.iscabbs.com/getpost.cgi?forum=26&post=30564 (Faunus30563) - I think the tuning thing is kind of evocative, but it was only one example he- June 16, 2008 I think the tuning thing is kind of evocative, but it was only one example he used.... this was supposed to be a general trait of people with skill, that they don&39;t want to go beyond other people with skill, but only the unskilled, while the unskilled want to go beyond everyone.http://rss.iscabbs.com/getpost.cgi?forum=26&post=30563 (Gwynn30562) - Could he actually be using the tuning as a metaphor Musicians don't want to- June 16, 2008 Could he actually be using the tuning as a metaphor Musicians don&39;t want to do more than other musicians, because as you said, once they&39;ve tuned, they&39;ve tuned. Doing more wouldn&39;t be good, it&39;d just break things. But the unjust, like somebody who doesn&39;t know music, just wants to do more and more. They don&39;t have the knoledge to realize when they&39;ve got enough.http://rss.iscabbs.com/getpost.cgi?forum=26&post=30562 (Faunus30561) - I guess I don't understand the basis for the analogy he's making.- June 16, 2008 I guess I don&39;t understand the basis for the analogy he&39;s making. He&39;s saying there&39;s an asymmetry between unjust men, who wish to do or have more than everyone, and just men, who only wish to do or have more than unjust men. And this is analogous to the asymmetry between, a musician, who wishes to do or have more than non-musicians with respect to tuning a lyre, and a non-musician, who wishes to do or have more than everyone, musicians as well as non-musicians, with respect to...http://rss.iscabbs.com/getpost.cgi?forum=26&post=30561 (Wicked Wizard30560) - Faunus>- June 16, 2008 Faunus> I think I understand your general concern (which is good one, I think, having to do with the quesiton of whether virtue is analogous to other skills, like, e.g., being a musician or a doctor), but I am not sure I get your actual question (the paragraph that starts w "But I don&39;t..."). Could you re-word andor elaboratehttp://rss.iscabbs.com/getpost.cgi?forum=26&post=30560 (Faunus30559) - (URL if you want to go check it out:- June 16, 2008 (URL if you want to go check it out: http:www.constitution.orgplarepub_01.htm )http://rss.iscabbs.com/getpost.cgi?forum=26&post=30559 (Faunus30558) - Plato's Republic, book I. The argument with Thrasymachus -- I'm not sure I- June 16, 2008 Plato&39;s Republic, book I. The argument with Thrasymachus -- I&39;m not sure I understand the part where Socrates gives Thrasymachus the smackdown. Thrasymachus says that an unjust man is good and wise, because he acts with discretion; a just man is simple, and therefore bad and foolish. Socrates gets him to admit that an unjust man wants to gain an advantage over the just and the unjust; whereas a just man, while he might want to take advantage of an unjust man, will not try to gain an...http://rss.iscabbs.com/getpost.cgi?forum=26&post=30558 |